Mauser ([info]mauser) wrote,
@ 2008-05-08 18:52:00
Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Current mood: pissed off

Values
I have a friend who bashes Christians a lot. As far as I can tell, his barometer of Christian values is any value any major Christian figure espouses that is not one he holds. Being a non-Christian, I suppose any common values he may have are not exclusively Christian, and thus are not Christian Values. So anything some hated figure like Jerry Falwell or other televangelist says is used to tar the idea of Christianity as a whole.

I'm not religious. I have no use for religion at all in my life. But I do recognize the social utility of religion. Lord knows there are enough people who need the promise of heaven and the threat of hell to to keep them from being a danger to society (and thus, me.). *grin*

Frankly, I usually find the antics of the liberal anti-religious fanatics more annoying.

But not this time.

It's the Proselytizing that bugs me. And I don't mean the door to door stuff. I mean the recruiting in bathrooms.

"Huh?" you might say?

A few years ago I was going into the bathroom at a local Wal-Mart (Not the one I usually go to) and this older man is rushing out, looking somewhat furtive. When I get to the urinal, there's this carefully folded slip of paper designed to look like a quartered $10 bill. If you were to pick it up and look at it, it would unfold to say something like "Disappointed? Jesus won't disappoint you...." and further blah blah blah. This flier was pretty old, since it hadn't been updated to look like the new $10 bill. The man had placed one on each urinal and stall.

These things annoy me for a couple of reasons. First, they must think I'm really, really stupid, and that all they have to do is TRICK me into reading their text and I will magically be transformed. I'm sorry, but if you have to trick someone into believing (that is the idea, right?) then that says very little in favor of your faith. The second is "You're soaking in it". These little tracts are written in such a way that they sound absolutely convincing to someone who is already a believer. But if the intended audience is someone who does not believe in God or the Bible, citing the Bible as proof fails. It's a circular argument, and only succeeds for those already inside the circle.

They also annoy me because they aren't even as inadvertently entertaining as a Chick Tract.

But yesterday I ran across one that REALLY pissed me off. I went to the bathroom at an Office Depot I was servicing, and there on the floor was yet another little religious come-on, titled "Under Attack" On the front was a picture of a New York firefighter looking over the rubble of the twin towers. You can already tell why I'm pissed. I may not be religious, but if there's one thing sacred to me, that's it. Using the tragedy of 9/11 to try to sell people on your church is lower than low.

It then goes on about how we're all going to die some day, and how we must accept Jesus to be ready for death. Remember what I said about circular arguments? The people who write these things fill them up with phrases and Cant that only have actual meaning to those who have already accepted it. Stuff like "the gift of Eternal Life through Jesus" is probably very meaningful to Christians, but without all the background, it's just as nonsensical as "There's no Prob with Bob."

And in fact, I kind of disagree with the premise of belief in Jesus as a sort of holy "Get out of hell free" card. I mean, if I'm going to be judged and held responsible for my actions, then *I'M* the one responsible. Punishing someone else for my "sins" is wrong, and telling me it's already been done 2000 years ago only compounds the injustice. (It also brings to mind the Jules Pfieffer (?) quote "If Jesus was sacrificed for our sins, do we make his sacrifice unjustified by not committing them?"). I'm sure it makes perfect sense to Christians, but it's nonsense to me, and I don't choose to believe in things that don't make any sense.

I know I have some Christian friends who read this. It's not meant to be an attack on them or their faith, but just on these creeps who use this technique of evangelizing. And don't try to explain Faith to me. If it were explainable, it would be Reason, not Faith. the closest you can come is Pascal's Wager, which I guess I've come as close to as I'm going to get by simply not being a rotten person.



(Post a new comment)


[info]gretchdragon
2008-05-09 05:31 pm UTC (link)
I'm one of those 'liberals' you rail against....or so I've been told, anyways. It's not so much that I'm anti-religion, it's that I'm anti-mix-up-religion-with-politics-and-government. It's possible to have morals and laws without relying on any single religious belief system; but what it boils down to is that one's government and legal system should NEVER be mixed up or overseen by any one group's imaginary friend(s).

As for evangalizing....I don't see much of that in California. I used to get the doorbell rung at about 7 am on Saturday mornings, but that got solved with a big sticky sign on the door that says ABSOLUTELY NO CHURCHES and No Soliciting underneath it. Now the people who ignore the soliciting sign are those kids claiming to be selling crap to go to Europe, and they're pushier than the religion mongers.

(Reply to this)

Deceptive Marketing
[info]slhansen72
2008-05-12 10:33 pm UTC (link)
I agree with you about these deceptive marketing flyers and "litter" that is left all over the place. I don't like leaflets left on my car either.

I am a Christian, a Mormon to be exact. But there are too many people who force religion on others. I don't like being force fed religion. Religious belief is between me and God. I only discuss religion with those who are willing to talk open or want to know about my religion. I do not force it on anyone. By being a good person and following my beliefs I believe my example and the knowledge what my religion is should be all that I need to do.

I don't like people generalizing people based off of religion either. I have met and worked with too many various beliefs to judge. Additionally I was taught there is good in all men and not to judge other religions either. Fundamentally, they are too similar in societal teachings to create the hatred that some people have.

The flyers and stuff "left in the restroom" is just littering. Without approval of management, that is all they are doing. Our lives will be judged by our actions. Membership of one particular church is not going to be the difference maker, it will be how you live your life, how you treat your fellow men, and how you conduct your business. Are you honest in your dealings? Are you charitable in your heart? That is what matters.

Just my thoughts on this matter. I did not intend to get preachy, sorry.

Steven Hansen

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: Deceptive Marketing
[info]mauser
2008-05-13 03:29 am UTC (link)
Not preachy at all (No more than I was). It's an attitude more people should have.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Deceptive Marketing
[info]darkangelpf
2008-05-13 04:06 pm UTC (link)
I have to agree with Steven.

I, too, am a Christian. Or what I like to title myself, a lapsed Christian. However, I know that forcing on others is no way to work. It didn't work on me. It took love and patience.

Advertising is fine and dandy, but it's the same sort of issue that is causing most apartment complexes to post signs against soliciting. Too many fliers for Chinese delivery!

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]rubberninja
2008-05-12 11:23 pm UTC (link)
Really? I thought the dollar bill thing was sort of clever. Didn't really convince me in the slightest, but a clever example of "guerilla marketing" I guess.

Personally it doesn't really bother me. Zoom over to youtube and see enough dangling bloody heads and screams of "ALLAH ACHBAR" and suddenly even the most obnoxious Christian televangelist seems a welcome sight.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]mauser
2008-05-13 03:31 am UTC (link)
Heh, don't get me started on the "Religion of Pieces."

(Reply to this)(Parent)


Create an Account
Forgot your login?
Login w/ OpenID
English • Español • Deutsch • Русский…